Ultimate Axiom

Joined

• started 18 topics
• posted 490 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by Ultimate Axiom

• 
  24

  Did You Feel That You Were Being Controlled WHILE You Were A Witness?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i never fully realized it until i was just about out.

  i adopted the attitude that “if mother says so, mother knows best!”.

  it took me a long time to conclude they were actually a cult.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  I have to say that I personally did not feel controlled when I was in, not in mind anyway. We were more controlled by the schedule of meetings, talks, field service, assemblies etc, but not the mind control JWs are subject to today. I think that back in the 70s there was a lot more intellectual freedom, and I can remember many a discussion with some of the more independently minded witnesses, where we would often disagree with the official line, and there was never any sanction. In fact, I would say that those (and there were a few) who swallowed 100% of everything that appeared in a book or a Watchtower, were considered odd, even a bit simple.

  zeb - you highlight a very good point, I too observed that born-ins always seemed to display the worst behaviours. Their hypocrisy was difficult to defend, especially to non-believing members of my family who were able to witness it first hand.
• 
  43

  Did Ray Franz Help You To Get Out of “The Truth”?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i sneakily read his books at work.

  it was written in such a way that no one could accuse him of being another bitter old apostate.. once it registered in my brain, especially after reading the second book, i knew i had to get out!.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  I was already out (in body at least) when Franz was disfellowshipped, and only heard about that second hand from my first wife (who is still in) so the answer is no. But having read it ten years ago, I know that if I had known of its existence back in the 80s it would have saved me about 15 years of pain.
• 
  32

  Do you know who wrote ...

  by vienne in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  do you know who wrote the 1959 watchtower book jehovah's witnesses in the divine purpose?

  anyone?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  PE - The book where the couple decide not to have children is called, with no irony intended, "Children" a Rutherford book from 1941, the bit you're referring to is on page 366.

  Phizzy - totally agree, that book has Freddy's half truths and misleading statements in abundance. However, I believe the book had several contributors, and therefore no single author.
  
• 
  9

  The important question : loyalty and devotion to whom, the leaders of the WTS/JWorg. or Jesus Christ ?

  by Finkelstein in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since 1919 the men who ran the wts.

  publishing house proclaimed that god jehovah has chosen the ibsa later on the jehovah's witnesses, in that they were solemnly chosen exclusively for their close adherence and accurate interpretation of the bible.. .

  the truthful reality is quite the contrary, the doctrines these men created were many times false and unscriptural , causing great personal problems including suicides and deaths to those who made themselves devoted to these men.. during the baptism of becoming a jws you would have to make a sworn vow of devotion to these men, who self describe themselves as the fdsl.. in reading the bible and the words of jesus christ it's obvious the leaders of this organization enacted themselves in apostasy opposed to the directions handed out by jesus in preaching his gospel.. they became discreetly unloyal to god as it were and lured in many to do the same in acts of coercion utilized by their publishing capabilities and the distribution of their literature to the public... .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  I take you point Finkelstein, but just to be accurate, Russell never claimed Jesus returned in 1914, he assigned 1874 to that event. After Rutherford hijacked the organisation he gradually re-engineered Russell's nonsense, well he had to, nothing Russell had actually predicted came about.
  
• 
  9

  The important question : loyalty and devotion to whom, the leaders of the WTS/JWorg. or Jesus Christ ?

  by Finkelstein in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  since 1919 the men who ran the wts.

  publishing house proclaimed that god jehovah has chosen the ibsa later on the jehovah's witnesses, in that they were solemnly chosen exclusively for their close adherence and accurate interpretation of the bible.. .

  the truthful reality is quite the contrary, the doctrines these men created were many times false and unscriptural , causing great personal problems including suicides and deaths to those who made themselves devoted to these men.. during the baptism of becoming a jws you would have to make a sworn vow of devotion to these men, who self describe themselves as the fdsl.. in reading the bible and the words of jesus christ it's obvious the leaders of this organization enacted themselves in apostasy opposed to the directions handed out by jesus in preaching his gospel.. they became discreetly unloyal to god as it were and lured in many to do the same in acts of coercion utilized by their publishing capabilities and the distribution of their literature to the public... .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  Not only does it carry on today, but the indications are that the controlling ambitions of this group of elitists will grow and grow. It is no accident that as the number of JWs has increased over the years, the size of the GB has steadily declined.

  
• 
  34

  Yesterday's WT slip up

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when the israelites left egypt in 1513 b.c.e., they may have numbered more than three million.

  spanning three or even four generations.

  🤭.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  It seems to me that this thread has gone off the point a bit. How many, and in what year, the Israelites left Egypt, is an open question. The point is that according to David Splane, when the Israelites arrived in Egypt a couple of centuries earlier they were just ONE generation, at least, all those that were alive at any time during Joseph’s lifetime were. Now that they are leaving they are no longer one generation, but up to four. But if they are all contemporaries of Moses, why aren’t the just one generation? This is what happens when you twist one passage and forget to apply the same twisted logic to other passages – you ‘slip up’. The same slip up was made in this Watchtower, and no doubt there are many others.
  

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5396830662688768/seven-generations
• 
  20

  Films with nudity

  by neat blue dog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i guess every jw has a different conscience on the matter, and i don't believe any jw publications have ever specifically mentioned nudity in film as being off limits.

  of course genitals are out of the question because that's usually relegated to r movies which most good jws don't view.

  female toplessness is condoned but not spoken about, as most jws i know have seen titanic and many own it.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  Remember that scene in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid where Sundance comes back to his woman after their escape by jumping off that cliff and initially you don’t know that she is his woman until he is part way through undressing her. Well I know a couple who walked out of the cinema in disgust when that scene came. I think almost everyone else in the congregation saw that film and loved it. So it would seem there has always been a big difference in what people deem suitable viewing. Mind you, I think this couple were just trying to prove they were super righteous, and secretly loved it.
• 
  23

  Why does WT rarely reference creationist scientist?

  by Sanchy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in watching the latest video in the series "was it designed?

  " at tv-dot-jw-dot-org, i got to wondering why is it that watchtower hardly references scientist that are creationist.

  i know its only a minority from that group, but there are enough out there for them to reference from.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  As far as I am concerned, anyone who believes that the human race began when god created Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago, is a creationist, and there are plenty of scientists who are therefore creationists. Of course, the term ‘scientist’ has a wide variety of applications, hence the Awake! often features articles where ‘scientists’ explains their faith, and these include microbiologists, biochemists, embryologists, pathologists, physicists, surgeons etc etc. The Watchtower should have no trouble quoting from these people for they are fellow Witnesses, so why don’t they? Perhaps because these people are not biologists have not produced a thesis or a research papers on any aspect of evolution that would carry any weight, therefore there is nothing of worth from these people to quote.
• 
  6

  Seven Generations

  by Ultimate Axiom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  by chance i came across a watchtower of june 1, 2015, and it has an article in it, “a legacy that has lasted seven generations”.

  it’s written by a guy called kevin williams and it starts with this ancestor thomas williams (1815-1891) and continues his story down to the present through his family.

  but hold on a minute, how can this guy’s twelve relatives span seven generations?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  To be precise here, no one talks about “overlapping generations” because that's not what the WTS doctrine is. The official doctrine is still of just a single generation, but one that can now last about 170 years (stretching from c1885 until c2055) because it's made up of two groups of anointed Christians (all forming just one generation). So they've got about 35 years before time junks this load of BS, but like me, most of those who dreamt it up won’t be around to face the music. The chances are, 1914 will be ditched by then anyway, or the WTS won’t be around, at least not in any form that we recognise today.
• 
  6

  Seven Generations

  by Ultimate Axiom in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  by chance i came across a watchtower of june 1, 2015, and it has an article in it, “a legacy that has lasted seven generations”.

  it’s written by a guy called kevin williams and it starts with this ancestor thomas williams (1815-1891) and continues his story down to the present through his family.

  but hold on a minute, how can this guy’s twelve relatives span seven generations?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Ultimate Axiom

  By chance I came across a Watchtower of June 1, 2015, and it has an article in it, “A Legacy That Has Lasted Seven Generations”. It’s written by a guy called Kevin Williams and it starts with this ancestor Thomas Williams (1815-1891) and continues his story down to the present through his family. But hold on a minute, how can this guy’s twelve relatives span seven generations? Isn’t Freddie Franz (1893-1992) and those anointed prior to the 1990ish (say born late 60s) just one generation?